Transcript 0:00 Well, Daniel Burke, happy birthday. How are you? Happy birthday, Troyson Le Demo Demonson. I'm good. How are you? I'm good, man. I'm good. We don't have a jingle for our podcast. 0:12 The last couple episodes, we actually just kind of run- I'm doing a ba, ba. We should- You know me do Two Dads in Tech. [laughs] I, I literally was... 0:19 I was at the gym, I don't know what it was, sometime last week, and I was like, "What did it say? When you're stressed as heck- Daddy? "... then you should go listen to- We need you... 0:27 Two Dads in Tech," or something like that. [laughs] Yes. And I was like, "Dang, we need like some sort of- Hey, buddy Hey, come on, bring it on... Daddy's, Daddy's recording a podcast. I was gonna- Uh- I was wondering. 0:36 I was like, "Wow, we're 21 episodes in and there's been no kid interruptions." I know. Well, okay, I guess he's gone now. I was just gonna let him be part of this, but I guess better, better that he's not. 0:43 Hey, but I was actually thinking that. So, like, we had... M- do you remember when we thought that one intro was so good, it was like us laughing, and it was like, "All right, let's just get into it." 0:53 Yeah, the ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. That one? No, no, no, no, no, no. That was amazing. [laughs] I think that that should just be our intro. Like, I can't believe that we launched the podcast- [laughs]... 1:02 with that teaser. As a launch video. Here's a... You did that. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Yep, dude. I mean, we didn't even have a team. [laughs] It was just, just like pulled it out of thin air. Yep. So funny. Yep. 1:10 Creative director. But no, it was like I was starting to go, and then I thought it was your turn. We were like, "Oh, wait, is it my turn?" 1:16 We laughed, and then it went, "Do, do, do, do, do," and then we started again, and it did like a rewind noise. Oh, yeah. That, that was so good. And we had like two episodes. Yeah. Why don't we have that anymore? 1:23 Well, what happened was we started getting those teasers. Yeah, that's right. That's right. 1:27 Our immediate thought was like, "Look, these teasers are cool, and they draw people in, so for YouTube, put the teasers on so people can see it and they can get drawn in." Right, but we should have an audio only, yeah. 1:37 And then for the audio, let's just do an audio only intro where it's like, "Hey, welcome to episode..." 1:42 So like you, everyone listening right now, you might have noticed like the last four episodes, it was like, "Hey, welcome to episode 19," or whatever it was. 1:49 But now, the last episode, or actually the one that dropped today, we're recording this a little early, the one that dropped today and the last one, um, and by the way, everyone, today is April 30th, there's no intro on the audio at all. 2:01 We jump right into the podcast. Right. And then I was listening to, like, Go to Market Fund's podcast. 2:06 I was listening to Sam Parr's podcast, My First Million, not My First Millionaire, and, like, they have such a cool jingle. And I'm like, "Dang, how do we get a cool jingle?" Yeah. 2:17 Even like, even Joe Rogan's, Joe Rogan's is super short, but recognizable, and I think that's where the familiarity is really important. Someone listens... 2:28 I- it's also like a, I don't know, I listen to something called Bayma Podcast. I'm on episode like 180 of 500 or something, and it's exactly the same little jingle every time. 2:36 So if you're tuned out and you're just listening, but you're listening to multiple episodes, it's actually like a, almost like breaking the fourth wall, like, "Hey, another episode just started." 2:44 And you sort of, like, tune back in if you're listening kind of passively. So yeah, there's a... Anyone listening here that knows how to make a sick jingle, j- j- jingle, we should just use that. 2:54 Just, uh, just- What's our budget? What's our budget? Or are we hoping somebody just knocks it out for free? Free. Our budget's free. No, we have a little money- [laughs]... but not, not, not, not a lot. 3:03 Just so that- We're, we're not retiring. We're not retiring yet. Yeah, we're not retiring. We still, we still, we still both be grinding the nine to fives, you know. Yeah. You know, so, you know. 3:10 Dude, it would be so cool if this ended up taking off in 12 months and, like, this was just our full-time thing. Whoo. That'd be sick. Just do like a, a seven, seven-figure podcast on the side. On the side? 3:22 Seven-figure side hustle? Ooh, we should, we should build that. This is- Status. And then we can build a course around how to build a seven-figure side hustle and make that into seven figures. And then write a book. 3:33 And then we have a side hustle that comes from side- Dude, write a book about how to make seven figures from writing books, but the one single book costs a million dollars to buy. All you need is to sell one. One book. 3:43 One book for the book to make sense. Ooh. It's just a flywheel, bro. We're just creating a flywheel. You know, business is easy, and people act like it's so difficult. "Oh, you need a customer success rep. 3:52 You need an account manager." Dude. Like, it's crazy. People, people say, "Oh, you should raise money if and only if." No, no, no, no. Simply make money. I don't understand what the problem is here. Just, just make more. 4:05 Just make more money. I don't... I like- Which... have you seen that guy on TikTok where [laughs] where the guy's like- No. No, no, no, no. There's this one dude that's like... Do you know Chris Cohn? Uh, no. 4:14 He's kind of like an Andy Elliott. He's kind of like a Grant Cardone, Gary Vee, kind of put him in that bucket, all right? Like, this big name that just sells his, himself as, as the product. 4:24 And there was a podcast, and he was like, "I want to own 14,000 businesses." And it, they were like, "Okay, well, how many do you own?" He's... 4:30 I can't remember what he said, so I'm just gonna say, he was like, "I own 140. I want to get to 14,000." And then a guy cuts, like, he stitches the TikTok, and he's like, "Why not a million gagillion businesses? 4:39 Why not just..." And it, and it reminds me, he... Another skit he does is literally like, "Make money. I don't know why everyone's talking about they need more money. Just make more money. 4:47 If you wanna make more money, reach out to people and ask them how to make money, and you'll..." Like, and it just keeps on going and going, and it reminded me exactly of that. 4:55 That's like, uh, totally, totally unrelated, but it reminds me of the TikTok guy. It's actually one skit, like one sketch or whatever. They stitched it. 5:03 I don't even know any other videos he does, but it's this person complaining about deep dish Chicago pizza. They're like, "What the heck is wrong with the deep dish Chicago pizza? Where are all the toppings?" 5:12 And the guy stitches it. He's like, "It's under the sauce." And it's like, "The, there's just... All there is is sauce. There's no cheese. There's no..." He's like, "It's under the sauce." 5:20 It's like, "All I want when I get a pizza is the toppings. I want cheese." He's like, "It's all under the sauce." And it's literally just- [laughs] Yeah... 5:26 literally, he's just responding to this guy complaining about deep dish pizza, and he's like, "It's, it's all under the sauce." [laughs] TikTok is so dumb. 5:33 I think my brain is rotting the more I watch TikTok, but you gotta love it. You gotta love it. I, I consume a good amount. Lately, I haven't been consuming as much as I, uh, as I once had. 5:42 But back to the jingle, I do think that we need to bring... Like, we always try new things, and I think that's the point of a business and a side gig is, like, just experiment. 5:50 But I do think that we need to make a memorable jingle- Yeah... that opens up, even on YouTube. Uh, I do love the teasers, though. I think that's more to just be used for short form, though, uh, to tease- Yep... 6:01 the episode. Yep.I agree. Yeah, yeah. We need to bring back... 6:04 We need to make some jingle that's, like, kind of professionally done, but I also like the jingles where it's, I think My First Million does this, where it's like a jingle, and then they kind of insert clips from that episode into the jingle, and then it, like, drops. 6:16 So it's... I don't know. We don't have the kind of budget they have. No, we don't. We don't. We certainly don't, but we will. We will someday. Two Dads and Tech is going places. I, uh- Yeah... I saw a story from... 6:26 It's Netflix. Netflix is going to, supposedly, start to host video podcasts. Netflix is gonna- Ooh... start having video podcasts on their platform, and I, I think it's probably an A/B test. 6:38 Like, I don't know that they're doing a mass rollout- Yeah. They-... but they'll probably do some tests, you know, geographically. 6:42 But I saw an interesting reply to that announcement on Twitter, and the reply was, "We really need to figure out how to name video podcasts something different," because purely nomenclature, saying video podcasts is like saying visual radio for- Yeah... 6:59 like, you know, a, a TV show- Mm. Yeah, yeah... or like, like audio visual film for like a, a sc- a, a sitcom or something. It's like almost like a redundancy that doesn't really make sense. 7:09 Like podcasts, the word, is an audio medium. Yeah. That's what podcasts has always been. So, like, video podcasts seems like a non-sequitur. Am I using that word correctly? I don't know. Sounds good. Yeah. I don't know. 7:22 That sounded great. Don't look up non-sequitur. It seems, seems like, seems like the right word here, but what should video podcasts be called? Mm. TV shows? Shows? 7:31 I feel like people call them shows, like, "Welcome back to the show." That- That sounds- Yeah... sounds fair. Maybe a show. Maybe a show. 7:38 I mean, like, honestly, what a podcast is, especially like ours, is essentially a talk show, like a late night talk show, but podcasts, we're just recording. Yeah. So maybe a show. 7:47 SNL doesn't hold a candle to Two Dads and Tech. But then you would have to like... If you, if you name it a sh- I know they don't. [laughs] But if you, if you name it show- [laughs]... 7:54 or you call it a show, you have to... Like, how are you gonna differentiate, like, hey, it's a podcast show versus that's a TV show, you know? Like, so if you have shows as a category- Yeah, I know. I know... 8:04 so that's the- I know. I don't know that it can be solved. But yeah. Yeah. It... Maybe, or it won't. I mean, I can think of a number of things that have just been unsolved. Unsolved mysteries. 8:13 It'll be, it'll be a murder mystery about how we never solved the nomenclature of video podcasts. I've watched that, that, uh, series, yeah. Someone commented on our dad swag that we have on Two Dads and Tech. 8:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have, if you didn't know, shop.twodadsintech.com has a whole awesome lineup of dad hats and mom hats and corporate espionage sweatshirts and all sorts of stuff. People love it. 8:37 The powers that be are saying it's the, it's the hottest swag startup in all of creation. So help yourself, shop.twodadsintech.com. 8:44 Someone said, "If you make a soon to be dad or dad upcoming or, or future dad," is what it was. Yeah. Future dad. "If you make a future dad collection, I'll buy it right now." 8:54 And so you and I discussed doing that, and we might, but it- Yeah... kind of begs the question. People ask, "Who's your core audience for Two Dads and Tech?" Our core audience are people who work in tech. 9:04 At first, it was dads who work in tech. 9:06 We quickly branched outside of that with some of the guests we have, some of the things we talked about not being specific dad related, but I think because Troy's a dad and because I'm a dad and we both work in tech, that's just like the natural audience that we're speaking to. 9:18 But we're also speaking to people who, like, aren't dads but want to be dads someday. Maybe they're- Yeah... in, you know, a relationship already, or they just know someday they wanna be a dad. 9:27 They could be anywhere in their journey. 9:29 But I'm like, future dad is kind of a sick collection, which kind of sparked this conversation that you and I wanted to have in today's episode about, like, how do you actually prepare to be a parent? 9:42 And I think we'll keep this... Our own experiences, of course, are being dads, but I think this definitely applies to parenting in general, dads, moms, guardians of any aspect. 9:52 I think I wanna ask the question in two different ways, and we can start that conversation. How do you prepare? Also, when do you prepare? Yeah. I think that's when the conversation gets really interesting. 10:01 Like, a lot of people prepare- Yeah... when there's a pregnancy that, you know, lasts nine months. I think it, I think you should start preparing way before that, personally. I mean, just life skills, discipline, 10:13 you know. But what do you think? Yeah. How do you start to prepare to be a parent? Yeah. 10:17 I almost want to turn this question, and I love this question, but I almost wanna turn it on you and say, "When do you think you should prepare?" Because you're saying it should be way before that. 10:26 I, personal experience, I did not prepare before pregnancy at all, but... And, and when you say that, I'm like, "Wonder what he's talking about?" Like, how... What could I have prepared before? 10:38 So I'm gonna start by saying, I'll answer the how do you prepare. 10:42 I won't answer the when should you prepare 'cause I, I really wanna hear your answer, but let's start this off by saying regardless of how much you prepare, you probably will not be as ready as you think you are when the baby arrives and you take the baby home. 10:55 Emphatically. Yes. And I, I could just repeat that for the next 45 minutes, and this episode would be extremely relevant to every parent out there. And so- Yes... 11:05 I have friends that are couples, and they would invite us when we had our kid, they would invite us out to do things, and they didn't know what it was like to have a kid, and they have one now and they said it's gonna be their only kid because of how much work it is. 11:18 Mm. Mm. Which is fine, but also there's- Yeah... I, I have a friend that's the exact opposite, where he's like, "Dude, I want like five of these things." Mm-hmm. [laughs] These things. 11:25 Talking like, talking like they're a stuffed animal, but, um- Like, give me another. Another one. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, I'll buy another, please. Um, so let me just say that. 11:34 You can prepare, and you can do everything in the world to make sure, like, hell, you can even, like, lose sleep months before and, like, purposely get into the habit of, like, not being able to sleep well or whatever. 11:45 Maybe you can do some sort of simulation. I don't know. Yeah. But what I will say is when the baby gets there, it's not gonna be what you expect it to be. 11:51 It might in some regards, but it w- it'll probably be like, well, it'll be an eye-opening thing. So how do you prepare? I'm gonna go more so logistically. I think my wife and I prepared a lot with, like-... 12:02 hypotheticals. That's one Mm-hmm And so like, hey, if the baby cries at 1:00 AM, who's gonna get up and who's gonna do that? Like, is it gonna be me? Is it gonna be you? 12:10 Are you gonna wake up with me if I'm feeding the kid? Like, that kind of stuff. We also, like, just did all of your normal things, and let me know if you remember this at all, but we have taken CPR classes twice. Hm. 12:20 And if my little one choked, I, even though I took it twice, I would have no idea exactly how to do it in the right way. Oh, dude, I have a horror story about this. Oh, no. 12:30 And let's stop right there to give a quick shout-out to our sponsor of today's episode, and that is Tango. I have been seeing Tango everywhere on LinkedIn. So I caved. It's like one of those things, right? 12:42 When you see something enough, you end up caving, and you decide to try it. I caved, I tried it, and honestly, I think what they're building is gonna change the way that CRM automation is done. 12:51 A lot of companies today do data entry and all that fun stuff, but what Tango is doing is they're automating every single thing that a sales rep does within Salesforce. 12:59 You just have to do it once, and it'll automate it from there on out. 13:02 So things like adding leads to Salesforce, progressing a deal from stage one to stage two, uh, closing a deal, creating your quote, all of these processes can now be automated if you just do it one time. 13:11 And so that's what they're doing for organizations. I think it's incredible. I think it's incredible. I used it for a HubSpot workflow. 13:18 I also used it for a step-by-step how-to guide on setting up HubSpot webhooks and demo. So many use cases. Literally anything that you wanna automate in your CRM can pretty much be done through Tango. 13:29 So go check 'em out. It's tango.us. That's T-A-N-G-O dot U-S. Now let's get back to the episode. We haven't talked about it on the podcast, but my, my youngest choked about three or four weeks ago. Legit. 13:39 Had to rip him out of his seat- Whoa... put him over my, my arm- Let's pause here. Yeah... and just smack his back. Most terrifying, most, literally, hands down, most terrifying 60 seconds of my entire life. 13:50 He was, he was eating. My wife was out with some friends that morning, so I was on dad duty- Yeah... with my three-year-old and- Ooh... you know, almost one-year-old. 13:59 And he's eating and he's, you know, he's fairly self-supporting as far as eating is concerned. He just, like, stuffs food in his mouth, but you give him, like, bites that aren't gonna make him choke, ideally. 14:08 Little bites, yeah. But he put, like, a bunch of them in his mouth at the same time, and I looked at him, and he, he, like, did a little cough, and I was like, "Oh, you all right?" 14:15 And then he was coughing, and he sort of stopped coughing and looked at me, and, like, there was this, like, fear in his eyes- Yeah... and his face started to change. So in a matter of... 14:24 You know, he went from normal to, like, red and his... I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, he's choking," so I... I mean, you're frantic. He's in the seat. 14:31 I'm ripping him out of his seat, and I pick him up, and I lay him, you know, head at my hand and bottom at my shoulder and- You're smacking his back. 14:41 I mean, I, I used to be a lifeguard, and I took first aid several times. Okay. And it's been years, but they tell you, like, if you don't feel like you're hurting them, you're not doing it hard enough. Yep. 14:50 With both the Heimlich- Yep... and CPR- And the CPR, yep... you have to actually... If... You know, you're supposed to break their ribs if they're adults. With babies, it's a little different. 14:56 But you, you're pushing hard. You're trying to start their heart in CPR. So he was still conscious, but I was terrified. Oh, yeah. 15:03 And I'm smacking him, and like, out of the corner of my eye, I see my three-year-old terrified, like, is, "What's happening?" Like, he's, has no idea. He just sees me frantic. Smack him, smack him. He starts coughing. 15:15 Food comes out. I text my wife once he's secure, and all, all I say is, "911." And she comes home. You know, I'm like, "I don't... Please don't make me explain this." She comes home as fast as possible. 15:25 I'm maybe five, 10 minutes sitting in this moment with my son, who's frantic. He's not choking anymore but crying his brains out. Oh, yeah. And I'm, like, trying to just keep my cool. Dude. 15:37 The moment my wife walks in, I give her my youngest, and I weep. I, I haven't cried like this maybe in my entire adult life. Dude. I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't control myself because I was like... 15:48 I was watching my child die [laughs] in front of me. Yeah. And like I, I didn't know how to- Dude... I didn't know how to control myself. So that was the worst moment I can remember in, in years. Very scary. 15:59 That is insane. Well, one, kudos to you for as much- Thanks... as you could keeping your composure, 'cause that's not- Yeah... that's not easy to do. And I, I would imagine, like, 16:09 even when my, even when Liam, so sometimes he'll have four or five bites of peanut butter and jelly or whatever and just try to swallow it all at once. Even when he... 16:17 You know, he's old enough to where, like, of course people can still choke, right? And he's, you know, he'll be three in a couple months. 16:22 So like, of course he can still choke, but like, he's old enough to, like, really understand, like, okay, like, just cough it out or, like, kinda- Yeah... throw it up a little bit. 16:29 But yeah, even times where it's, like, half a second, which this was very clearly much more serious than that. 16:33 Even when it's, like, half a second, I see him, like, not being able to breathe in, but his face is turning red, and he put way too much in his mouth, like, your heart just drops. You're like, "Oh, my goodness." 16:42 It's so scary, dude. Ugh. Dude, I couldn't imagine. I literally could not imagine at all. Do you know what he ate, what it was? I actually can't remember now. I think it was, uh- Who knows... 16:52 it ma- may have been, like- Doesn't matter... little chicken bites or something. Yeah, I can't remember. It was- Yeah. So scary... just too much, a- and, you know, it's, it's... Yeah. 16:59 I mean, he's so funny because he has no self-control, obviously. He's not even one year old yet. But he just, like, stuffs his face. Even since then, I'm on, like, hyper-sensitive, you know, dad duty. 17:09 Whenever he's eating, I'm like, even to the point- Yep... where I'm like, "I'm not even gonna give you enough food in front of you for you to choke [laughs] by giving- Yeah... yourself too much food." Yeah. 17:16 So, like, portioning even- Yep... his plate in front of him. Which, like, typically- Dude... you do anyways, but this was just, you know, he b- I didn't think he was gonna choke, so. It's a freak scenario. 17:24 So freaky, man. So we're talking about preparing for parenthood. Like, these are the things that you can prepare for, but, like, you don't really expect them to happen. Yes. Right? 17:33 Like, choking you don't expect, and it's, it's a rarity, but when it happens, you have to know what to do. Even if you don't know what to do, you have to know what to do. 17:40 So, like, that's one of those things, again, you can prepare for that all you want. We've taken two CPR classes. 17:44 I bet the second that it happens, and I hope that it doesn't, I will immediately just kind of blank out and do- Yeah... whatever- Yeah... whatever takes control of my body. And so save this kid- Yep... 17:54 I will try to do that, right? Yep. But that's, it's kind of funny. Liam, about a month ago, was going through this weird choking phase, and he's too old to be doing this, but he would just keep shoving his face. 18:03 Keep shoving his face. And so I was actually at a point where I was giving him, like, one piece of chicken nugget, and then- Yeah, yeah, yeah... another piece when he finished that. 18:09 And now even to this day, it's like, he choked the other day running around in the basement because he was eating food with a friend, and they were eating muffins, and they're, like, running and tackling each other out there. 18:17 And I'm like, "Dude." It's, it's ridiculous. Like, dude, you can't do these things at the same time. [laughs] Don't run with your food in your mouth. Um, but anyways, so that's that. 18:27 I would say another really big thing about preparing is this is a little before and after, so before the kid gets there and after, more so after, but over-communicate every emotion and- Everything... 18:38 everything that you're feeling, every stress that you have. A- any little bit of stress or sadness or d- even depression or whatever it is, over-communicate that. I absolutely did not. 18:48 I tried to be like macho man dad, like, "I'm good, I'm good," like, whatever. So over-communicate everything with your partner 'cause I think that if you're- Yeah... not on the same page, that will be horrible. 18:58 And one thing that I actually wanna talk about as well, maybe this podcast is a good fit for it, is like another thing you wanna do is make sure that you do everything that you can. It's really, really hard. 19:08 But everything that you can, like your wife, your significant other, whoever this is that you're having a kid with, it doesn't really matter, like you said, guardian, I don't care, like make sure that they remain your best friend throughout the entire process because once you lose that little bit of friendship that you, you know, you loved that person for, you came to know, like very easy to like kind of take every single thing off of your plate and then give it to the- Yes... 19:29 kid and kind of like backseat the relationship for a little bit. And I know that we've gone through this, and like we're in a much better space, but like we've gone through it, and like you just don't... 19:39 You're, you're so focused on like, "Let's keep this kid alive. Let's make sure he's happy." Yes. "Let's make sure he's learning," all of this stuff. Don't forget about the important relationships that you have. 19:46 And then, yeah, I mean, like there's some things, like we were turned a, uh, this is kind of more materialistic, but, uh, we were turned a, a wipe warmer for Liam, and- Hmm... 19:55 we have one for Harrison, and it was literally a game changer. Like he- Yeah... for Liam, Liam cried every time in the middle of the night when you put a cold wipe on his butt. Yep. 20:02 Harrison's like, "No, this feels good." He's stay, he'll stay asleep. Right. Yeah, who cares? Give me, give me the wipes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. More, more, more. He's- he started talking. 20:11 He was like, "More" [laughs] And I was like, "Whoa." More. [laughs] So yeah, like there's just some things. If you can, try to s- in my opinion, this is... 20:21 a lot of people feel differently, try to sleep train because at least for us, both of them were able to sleep through the night. Lot of opinions on that one, yeah. Yes, lot of opinions. 20:30 But people, people get up in arms about sleep training, which I didn't realize. Yeah, I didn't know either. There's two things that come to mind. 20:38 One, if you are in a relationship, you might be raising kids by yourself, that's fine, but your significant other, never stop dating them. 20:47 That is something I cannot drill further into the mic and really reiterate enough. This is advice we got when we got married. I think it applies even more to when you start having kids. 20:59 But when we got married, I, I can't even remember who told it to me, but they said, "Don't ever stop dating your wife." And I've, I've taken that to heart. 21:06 Over the years it's been harder, and in different seasons we go on more or less dates. Right now we're planning and, and successfully going on a date every single weekend. That's great. 21:13 Which is harder now than it's ever been because of our season of life. We have two kids under four. I work like crazy. She has our work and side hustle and our business together, and she's also an admin. 21:25 So like we- we're busy, but that, that has to be priority number one is we are... That when we stop going on dates, we turn into roommates, and- Yep... you don't wanna be a roommate with your significant other. 21:36 That's, that's a bad place to be. Nope. When you're roommates, you don't necessarily talk about what needs to be talked about. You're not going there with those conversations. You're not asking how each other feel. 21:44 You just live in the same house. 21:46 And you know, Troy, you probably have, I know I've, I've had so many households in my life, especially in college, you're living with like eight dudes in like a two-bedroom apartment type stuff. 21:55 And like roommates are not spouses, and so you don't want your spouse to just be a roommate. You want your roommate to be your spouse. You wanna date them. You want that to be a priority. 22:04 So never stop dating them, your wife, your husband, your spouse, whatever, your significant other. 22:09 Before you get to point two, on that dating part, completely agree, and that's kind of where I brought up, like don't forget, like that's your best friend that you married. Like don't ever forget that. Yes. 22:17 On that, like a date doesn't have to mean you go out and spend money. Yes. A date is just, you go out and spend quality time with your significant other. Like that is, go on a walk, have a picnic, eat chips somewhere. 22:28 It doesn't matter. Like just make something work. Go grab a bag of chips from the pantry. Go sit out, out a park and just talk about life. Like that's it. But anyways, keep going. 22:38 My youngest has been really tough sleeper his whole life so far. He's almost one, so for the last year he just has not slept well almost ever. 22:46 He's had maybe two to three weeks total in his whole life of where he's like slept through the night. So a lot of times we put him down to bed. We have a babysitter that comes over the moment the kids are in bed. 22:57 We go out for two hours. We come back 'cause he's probably gonna wake up, and we just need to be around when he is. 23:01 If we can't do that, which we haven't been able to, what we'll do is we'll prepare a charcuterie board at home. We'll grocery shop that day or that week. We'll get the stuff. We'll make it at home. 23:10 The kids are in bed, but we're having a date in our kitchen. We make the charcuterie. We're pouring a glass of sparkling water. I don't drink. 23:17 Uh, Courtney might have some wine, but usually it's just like wine or a sparkling water or something. And we'll just chat. We'll light a little candle. 23:23 It'll be romantic, but we're just having a charcuterie board in our house. Yeah. Other ideas I've heard are like start a fire in your backyard, listen to a podcast together. 23:31 I mean, there's a million ways to have, quote, "a date," make it special. Yeah. Maybe even dress up, but you're not even going anywhere, and you mi- might not even be spending any money. So a lot of creative ideas. 23:41 The second thing I was gonna say, this is advice that has stuck with me regularly, and this is... 23:46 Someone gave me this advice when Courtney was pregnant with our first, and so I wasn't a dad yet, but I knew the day is coming. He said, "I think there's a reason God made pregnancy last nine months." 23:58 He said, "It's so that people can mentally prepare for what's coming." So that's point number one, and point number two- Yep... he said, "I think there's also a reason why kids forget 24:10 nearly everything for the first two to three years of their life." Obviously general paintbrush, maybe some more or less. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's because parents 24:18 do not have a clue what they're doing, and they make-So many mistakes in those first years. Regular mistakes, bad mistakes. Parenting is hard. You might lash out at your kids without intending to. You might-- 24:32 I mean, the list- There's a lot. Yeah, yeah... is endless. The list is endless, but you're not ruining your kids' lives in those first few years by making mistakes. We're human. Everyone makes mistakes. 24:43 You're not gonna be perfect. No matter how much you prepare, you're gonna make so many mistakes. You're gonna look in the mirror, and you're gonna be ashamed. Yeah. 24:52 If you're not, you might not be as self-aware [chuckles] as you think you are. Yeah. Yeah. You, you will at one point in your life as a young dad or as a young parent wonder, like, "How in God's name am I fit for this?" 25:05 And the answer is you're not. Yep. No one is. But the other answer is that people have been raising kids for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, and so far humanity hasn't gone extinct. 25:15 [chuckles] And so good parenting and bad parenting, the kids are gonna survive, uh, unless they choke on something and you can't get the, you to stop choking. 25:22 But there's a reason it takes years for the kids to start developing long-term memories, because you're gonna make a lot of mistakes, and I think whether you believe in God or not, I think God did that for a reason. 25:33 I think there's, there's years of, of mistakes that you can start to learn from, and then by the time your kid is two, three, four years old and start to develop a personality and some of those psyches and long-term memories, like, you're still gonna make a ton of mistakes, but, like, ideally you'll, you'll have learned some of those recurring mistakes by that point. 25:50 Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I love that, and it's so true. 25:54 I feel like, and maybe it's just me, but like there are part-- Like you just said, if you don't look in the mirror and you're not ashamed of at least something that you've done throughout parenthood, I, I agree with that. 26:04 Like, I feel like if you haven't once been like, "Dang, am I a bad parent?" Like, you probably haven't made enough mistakes, or you're probably not as involved as you want to be or should be, who knows? 26:13 Now, that's generalizing everything, but it, it's so true, and I think it's really, really, really important that that's highlighted and emphasized because 26:23 like anything, like my wife will cut Harrison's fingers on accident with the, with the fingernail clipper, and she'll like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so..." And I'm like, "He will never remember this. He's not even crying. 26:33 I know there's a little bit of blood at the side of his finger, but like I... It's okay. It's okay." Or there's times where I go back, "Dude, why are you still crying?" 26:40 It's like, why am I talking to a, a four-year, a four-month-old like that? Like that, that's stupid, right? But it's hard. It is very hard. It's hard, and it is okay that it's hard. And you have lives in your hands. 26:50 I mean, we don't even need to go down the rabbit hole of like, you get shots or you don't. I mean, some people-- This is obviously, these are polarizing conversation topics. Oh, yeah. 26:59 I, I don't think we're prepared to even have those right now, but like should you get your kids vaccinated? Should you get your- Yeah... son circumcised? 27:07 Like there's, there's like endless opportunities to have a strong opinion as a young parent, and the, the complexity is that never in your entire life until the time you're a parent have you been making irreversible decisions for another human. 27:23 That's my opinion. Yeah. Dude. I don't think we have ever had to do that as, as people until we're parents or guardians or- That's true. That's true... in charge of other humans. 27:33 So we've always made decisions for ourselves. We've made decisions that affect other people, but you've never had to make a decision for another person. 27:40 And then you're a parent, and all of a sudden the moment that child is born, nurses are asking you questions, and you are the person that has to answer for that human baby. Yep, dude. And that is a- That is-... 27:50 shocking reality. That is... It's so real. It's, and I, I never think about it that deeply, and that's why I love jumping on these podcasts. I never think about that kind of stuff. 27:59 Like, I know I'm doing it, and I know I'm making these decisions, but I never think like everything that you know and everything that you do today, Liam, now that you're smart, you're becoming like funny and whatever, a little, little feisty, it's because like I, I've taught it to you, and I've told you- Yes... 28:12 that's, you know, what you should do, shouldn't do, et cetera. Yes. But that is awesome. So on, on like the shot thing, who'd you vote for and why? No, I'm kidding. [both laughing] Did you- Dude. 28:22 Did- So it's-- Oh my goodness, there's entire books out there, and I, I-- a lot of the young parents here probably even have those books on their bookshelves. 28:28 Like, I really try not to have an opinion about how other people parent their kids because it's just... 28:34 Like, I know now even from having two kids that the opinions I have on parenting changed even from kid one to kid two. So I'm like, how much more is it gonna change from family one to family two and different- Yeah. 28:45 Yeah. There's-... life circumstances and different family histories and different traumas and experiences and baggage, and I mean- Yeah... oh, dude, it just, there, there is not a one-size-fit, fits-all for parenting. 28:58 Yeah. There, there's not. There's not. There's not. I saw an analogy about it. 29:00 It's, it's like going in the subway, and somebody's ordering in front of you, and you care what that person puts on their subway sandwich even though you don't know them, but you're like, "Why would you get black olives? 29:09 Like, why would you do that?" And that's kind of like a perfect analogy of how I view the world for other people. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't care what toppings you're putting on your subway sandwich. 29:17 I'm just worried about my own sandwich. I want it to taste good. But back to the dating thing, it's funny. So my wife and I just got into a sand volleyball league. Ooh, that's cool. 29:26 So every week we get to go play sand volleyball, co-op sand volleyball together, so I'm pumped. Today's day, today's actually day one, and it's late though, dude. Nine PM game. Um- Oh, gosh... 29:35 that's all right though, but it's a date. You got- That's a date, so... family coming over? How, how do you even do that? You playing in your backyard? [laughs] Today's, uh, today's gonna be... 29:42 And, uh, [chuckles] today's gonna be a babysitter, but moving forward it'll probably just be-- 'cause her parents live literally right next door. I could- Is it-... I could shoot a spitball at her house. 29:51 That's pretty cool. Is it, um- Um.... every week or like once a month or every other week? It's-- Yeah, so it's every week, and so-- And we don't-- We have like extra players, so you don't need to go- Yeah... 30:00 to every single game if you can't make it, but it's every week, so that's one thing. That's super sick. 30:04 Another thing is we're going to, uh, Milwaukee, and her parents are keeping both kids for the first time, our first overnight on Friday of this week. Congrats. 30:14 To celebrate ourFive, four-year anniversary, five-year, something like that. That's sick, man. That's a big deal. Dude, I know. She's-- And one of those things where, like, as a parent, you're really nervous. 30:25 You're like, "Are they gonna be okay with the kids? The choking thing?" Like how do... You know, it's just... Yeah. You, you still worry. You know, you, you take a break- You do... 30:32 and you take a, a mental break from kids sometimes, but you still worry. It's always there. Yes. But you do remove yourself from the daily routine of doing things, which is your break. Yes. So. 30:42 We still have not gone on a getaway since our youngest was born over almost a year ago, and- Mm, it's time... we, with, with Everett, our first, we went on our first weekend getaway when he was about six months old. 30:54 But our youngest, Maverick, is just... he's just still inconsolable if he wakes up in the middle of the night, unless Courtney is there. He's getting better. 31:03 I have hope that sometime this calendar year we'll be able to leave him and the other, you know, both kids with, with, you know, either grandparents. That's mine, my parents or hers, and 31:13 I'm, like, so ready for that because it's just like, aw, dude, I miss, I miss, like, going to a resort for one night. Even not even a... 31:21 Let's dumb it down, like one Airbnb night somewhere super standard where we can stop talking and listen and not hear crying babies. [laughs] Like, I, I miss that. Literally just- You know? 31:35 Just go to Charleston for one night. Yeah, just like stare- You're forty minutes away... at a wall. Like, you know? So but that's the important part of going on dates is, like, actually remembering, "Oh, like, I forgot. 31:43 We had conversations with each other before we had kids without interruptions from kids." It's, uh- Yeah... it's important. Yeah. I'm glad you guys get to do that. It'll be... That'll be good. So your fifth anniversary? 31:54 Yeah. What year were you married? Twenty twenty-one, so fourth. Twenty one, so this will be your fourth, fourth anniversary. Yeah. That's awesome, man. Fourth anniversary. 32:01 It was, yeah, it's gonna be our first little, uh, powwow. But, um, yeah, I think that kind of like back to what you said is, like, never stop dating. I think one thing I just... 32:10 one thought I randomly had o- one night early on having kids was just like, dang, like, that was my best friend right there, and, like, now we're- Mm... like you said, we're just roommates. We're kind of just... 32:20 We're both taking care of the kid, but outside- Yep... of the kid, it's like, yeah. But anywho, when-- The second question was, when should you start preparing for it? 32:29 And you mentioned a lot of people start as soon as the pregnancy happens. When do you think you should start? I think that's too late. I think it takes a lifetime to prepare. I don't think- Ooh, this is deep... 32:41 so, like, if you don't, if you don't know you're gonna have kids, set that conversation aside, right? A lot of people don't know, and so there's not necessarily- Yeah, yeah, yeah... 32:48 a reason to, "I'm preparing to be a dad." And I don't think it's as literal as that. You know, you're like seventeen years old applying to colleges, and your mindset's like, "Oh, I'm, I gotta prepare to be a dad." 32:58 Like, that's not what I'm saying. 32:59 But I think the, the habits and the rituals and the obsessions, the way you speak to people, the way you speak to, in my case, the way I speak to women before I got married, before I had Courtney, the way I'm even interacting with the world around me. 33:16 Yeah. All of those things are actual stepping stones in preparing to be a dad. And so I think surround yourselves. 33:24 If you know you wanna be a dad or a parent someday, put yourself in some uncomfortable situations with kids. Maybe you have a friend who has kids. Ask to babysit those kids. 33:33 Or maybe you are part of a, like a church community. Maybe be a, a teacher at Sunday school. 33:38 Or, like, do something to be around kids, because what I wish I would've done more, and I did do some through college, like I babysat. 33:47 You know, I would live with a, I lived with a family for a few months, and my rent was babysitting their kids, which was awesome if you can do that. Highly recommend it. Saves a bunch of money. 33:54 But I, I l- I was changing diapers in college in those moments. I was babysitting. I was, like, interacting with babies and toddlers. 34:03 So, like, when I became a dad, it wasn't shocking to me what babies and toddlers were like. Still super different, but I think there are very practical ways for you to actually put yourself in a father-like situation. 34:18 Even like a Big Brother program if you're a dad. There's similar ones for women. But, like, you can be a father figure before you're an actual dad. Yeah. I think that's important. 34:29 And I think, you know, we've talked about this in past episodes. I don't have the stats right in front of me. What is it? 34:34 There's, there's a specific fraction of violent crime that directly correlates to whether or not a person has a present father in their early years of life, 34:47 and that's something I come back to philosophically quite a bit is: am I a present father? 34:54 I'm going on a work trip, uh, later today, actually, at the time of this recording, and I'm effectively gonna be gone for a week and a half. 35:01 I'm coming back for two days, and I intend on being fully present for those two days, but then I leave again for a week. I, I don't like doing that. Not because- Yeah... it's like 35:12 you, I don't like traveling or, "Oh, it's gonna be terrible." 35:14 Like, traveling's fun, and there's a lot of good things that come from it, but, like, I, I want to be where my kids are, and leaving them for a week and a half, like, I don't like that being a habit of mine, because I want to be in my kids' lives. 35:29 So I think there's just so much you can do to prepare way, way, way before you're like, "Oh, the baby's on the way," you know? I think you really... It takes a lifetime as an adult to prepare to be a good father. Yeah. 35:40 Yeah, and there's, there's this CRO I know. 35:42 He traveled, a few years ago, he traveled, like, three hundred forty days out of three hundred sixty-five, and he finally came to the realization of, like, "I can't do this anymore. I need to be at home and be present." 35:53 Yep. But that was after, like, the company that he was working for IPO'd and stuff, so I'm sure it, you know, monetarily it, it probably paid off, right? Yeah. But, like- Yeah... 36:01 and I don't know how old his kids were at the time or anything like that. Mm-hmm. So I don't know what kind of memories he missed out on. 36:06 But all that to say is, I've always something-- I never wanna travel to where I'm away from home more than I'm at home, and I honestly don't wanna travel every other week. 36:16 Like, that seems like a lot, too, even if it's just a few days every other week. Yeah. 36:20 I've, you know, some friends thatThe, the wife travels one week, and then the husband travels the next, and it's all for work, and they make- That's hard... a lot of money, and they're extremely happy. 36:27 But I'm like, yeah, but I, I don't know. I, I'd risk a little bit of, of money and income for being able to be at home, and that's what I do. 36:35 As I've gotten older, the way I view the world has become a lot more, like, metaphysical, where I'm like, we are all gonna die. Like, every single person is gonna die. 36:46 The only thing that we all have in common is we are born, and we die. Everything else, like, y- there's differences here and there, DNA differences, family history, all that stuff. We're all gonna die. 36:56 Even funny, there's a little TikTok video or something, a, a very short skit, where it's like every single corporate meeting should open up with, "Hey, guys, just as a reminder, every single one of us is gonna be dead someday, and none of this really matters. 37:09 Now, let's get started." And it's like, actually, like, as funny and satirical- Yeah... as that is, we do need to remind ourselves, like- Yep... 37:17 nothing we're doing is actually that important, and it's all gonna waste away someday, and we're all gonna die. So we should do what is vitally, crucially, inseparably important day to day. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 37:31 'Cause ultimately- Yep... we're... Like, there's so many stories of people on their death beds, and they're like, "Hey, what do you regret?" The commonalities are, "I regret not spending more time with my wife. 37:39 I regret not having more kids. I regret working too hard. I regret, I regret, I regret..." All of these really common recurring regrets that people have when they're 90, 100 years old, dying. 37:51 I don't know of anyone that says, "I regret not putting in more hours at that one job. I regret not traveling more to make that sale. I regret..." Like, guys- Yeah... 37:59 there's a season and a time of life to grind and, and, and really s- set other things aside. I, I believe that. I, I traveled full-time- Yeah... for almost two years, four flights a week. 38:09 I mean, in and out of hotels, but I wasn't a dad yet. My wife worked full-time. It worked. Yeah. It wasn't perfect, but it worked. I would give my left kidney before I'd do that now. I would not travel- Yeah... 38:21 full-time. I'm just not willing to. I, I, I want to be home more than I want to do that- Yep... regardless of what the outcome is of doing that. Yeah, yeah. 38:29 Another thing that's important to, to touch on is that there is a time to grind. Mm-hmm. And it's okay to gri- It's not like we're saying, "Hey, it's not okay to grind." Yep. 38:35 What we're saying is, if you go back and listen to stories of people that did grind their entire life, the biggest regret is the grind. And actually, do you follow Scott Barker from GoToMarket Fund? Oh, I, I... 38:46 The name sounds familiar. No worries. I'll, I'll quickly give you a recap. So- Okay... uh, he was one of the first, uh, employees ever at Outreach, Outreach, whatever. They had all their success. 38:55 Yep, he had a lot of success. That's why. I, I know him from Outreach. Okay. So went to GoToMarket Fund, started his VC thing, invested in tons of companies, did really well. Did really, really, really well. 39:05 Now, he's sold every little materialistic thing that he has, his car, his house, his furniture. Every little thing. All he has is a backpack. Wow. 39:14 And what he's doing is he's going to backpack the world, and he's creating a... He wrote a... He's has a newsletter. He's on Substack. Go flip him. But- Whoa. Hey. Yeah. Go, go flip him. So- What the heck? What the heck? 39:23 He's creating a newsletter. Don't even say that word. Can we, can we bleep that word out? [laughs] No, just kidding. We don't have to bleep it. It's AI. Use AI to make, "He's on Beehive." Yeah. [laughs] He's on Beehive. 39:32 [laughs] Like me- So-... just over- He's-... over-voicing you. Go ahead. [laughs] It is just you. 39:37 Uh, but what's really cool is he's telling this journey, and he wrote a really long post about it yesterday, and I was like, dude, this journey will be legendary. 39:44 And it's about how he has done, like, his last eight to 10 years of his life has been purely the grind, purely traveling, not caring about any relationships that he's had, like, all of the stuff. 39:53 It's all just I've done everything for money, and now it's time for me to not care about money, go backpack the world, figure out, like, what I wanna do with my life, and that's that. And I think it's... 40:02 Like, I think those stories are incredible. It's okay to grind, especially if you're in the right season- Mm-hmm... for it. And also, like, just measure out what you really want. 40:10 Like, if you wanna grind and make a lot of money and, like, the kids take a back seat, like, that's what you want, as long as, I guess, it's communicated and expected and all, everyone's on the same page in the family, then it is, it is what it is. 40:21 But we don't have much time, and I wanted to pivot real quickly because we keep talking about, like, the grind and people regretting- Yeah... 40:26 spending too much time at work and stuff like that, and Scott Bies wrote a pretty interesting post. I don't remember what it said word for word, but the idea of it was work-life balance isn't a privilege. 40:39 You should work hard to earn work-life balance. And I wanna get your thoughts on this. And he brings it up as in, like, if you're working for a startup, you shouldn't just be able to go in there and be free. 40:49 He's like, work-life balance happens when things are going really well. When things are not going really well, you should not have work-life balance. You should be working. You should be busting your ass. 40:57 Like, you should be doing the things that you need to do at your job to earn work-life balance, and I wanna get your thoughts on that because he said it in a way where, like, of course his post is gonna go viral, right? 41:07 And I kind of agree with that. Like, you f- Yep... should work for work-life balance. Like, you should earn- Yes... work-life balance. 41:12 You shouldn't just be given this nice little, you know, especially if you're at a startup. This, I feel like this is very- Yep, yep... startup specific, and it's very- Yep... it could... 41:19 Some people are gonna be, "Ew, you want me to work 12 hours a day?" Like, yeah. I know. If, if we're not doing well- Yeah... yeah. Right, right. Or leave. Right. Right? So- Yeah... so what are your thoughts? I, I agree. 41:28 I've been in startups for about six years now, and 41:32 I feel like it rubs me the wrong way when someone joins, and early on makes either a complaint or a complaint adjacent about how exhausted they are or how much work is on their plate. 41:49 And obviously, I, I'm trying to paint a really general paintbrush because I, I'm, I'm in the thick of it right now. You know, Beehive went from 10 employees when I joined to 100 employees now, and we're growing rapidly. 41:59 Like, earn your keep before you say, "Oh, man, like, you know, I, I didn't sleep last night." I was like, "Well, like, join the club. Like, I haven't slept in years." You know? It's like, o- obviously, it's... 42:09 I have slept, and, and, you know, it's, it's gotten better, but, like, 42:13 if, if tomorrow I get a call that we're 5% shy of yearly target across the board at Beehive-Like, I'm having a hard conversation with Courtney about what the next six months look like in my life. 42:27 I put in the hundred hour weeks year one. I mean- Yep... no exaggeration. Up super late- Yeah... up super early every day, grinding. Yeah. That's just what it- Yeah... that's just what it took. 42:38 That's-- I'm not patting myself on the back. That's what we all did. All of the people at Beehive from day one until year two were just grinding. Uh- Yep... and there's still people, people still grinding. 42:51 And so we haven't stopped grinding, but we have a lot of, you know, a lot more people now than we did, and it's like you gotta earn your keep. Work-life balance 100%. 42:58 I think if you want to be ultra-successful in life, you're not gonna have work-life balance at first. It's a sacrifice. Yep. 43:07 If you want work-life balance, you either need to sacrifice the ladder that you're climbing or get, and this is just a topic of conversation for another day, but get really, really lucky and land a job that is super background job at, like, big tech, Amazon- Yep... 43:24 Microsoft- Yep... Meta. Like, Meta less so, but a lot of these big tech companies, like, you can get away with twenty-five to thirty-five hour work weeks making two fifty to three fifty salary. Yeah. 43:33 You can totally do it. Yeah. A lot of people are doing it. You can. And, uh, they're probably all eventually gonna get laid off. 43:39 Maybe not all of them, but a lot of them, and AI is replacing some of those roles where it's like, "Wait a second. We're paying this guy for forty, fifty hours and he's only putting in twenty?" Like, you know- Yeah... 43:46 cut it out, right? But yeah, you gotta earn it. Yep. You gotta earn your keep. Yep. You gotta earn your, your work-life balance, 100%. What do you think? Yeah. I agree with that. 43:54 I'm gonna move the mic a little bit so there's gonna be noise because I actually want to read this post, and I, I'm in full agreement. So it says, "You don't deserve work-life balance if you haven't earned- Oof... 44:06 anything yet. You can't balance what you haven't built. Nobody wants to say it, so I will. Early on, you grind, you sacrifice, you bleed for your future self. 44:15 Later, if you're lucky and ruthless enough, you buy back your time with freedom. I hustled like hell through my 30s, built real success. Now I do less, not more. I choose my sprints. I pick my battles. 44:25 That's not quitting. That's evolving. If you're tired of the hustle but still broke, maybe it's too soon to slow down. Self-awareness is everything. The hustle versus balance debate is lazy. 44:34 The truth, both matter, just not at the same time. When you're behind, you hustle like hell, no vacations, no work-life balance. You earn the right to slow down. 44:44 Later, if you're smart and honest with yourself, you shift, you sprint, and then you rest. You choose where and when to push. The people screaming, 'Hustle forever,' burned out and bitter. 44:54 The people whispering, 'Balance,' irrelevant and broke. Self-awareness isn't optional. It's the unlock. Know what season you're in and act like it." And I was like- That's big... you know what? Yeah. 45:04 It's huge and, and I completely agree. Like, it, and it all depends on what kind of life that you want to live as well. I think that plays a huge role and, and that's a big factor. 45:14 But I'm gonna end us off with that, with that post right there. I think that's a great way- Love it... to end the podcast. So let's wrap things up. 45:20 Daniel Burke, I know you're going out and flying out in the next few hours, so where should they find us before you leave us? You should find us at twodadsintech.com. Remember, we have a shop, shop.twodadsintech.com. 45:32 We have a lot of stuff for dads, and moms, and coffee savants. Uh- Ooh, yeah... so check us out, shop.twodadsintech.com, and then Two Dads and Tech on every platform, LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram. 45:44 Two Dads and Tech is all over the place, YouTube as well. Subscribe and like and comment. Do all the good things. Share with a friend. Give us a high five virtually. We love you. 45:51 The reason we do this is because of your listening. Appreciate you guys. Yeah. And with that, we will see y'all next week. Have a good one. See ya.
