Transcript 0:00 Tryson. Tryson D. What's up, big boy? You know, you know my name's actually short for Trysif. It's something I don't tell a lot of people. Trysif. Trysif. My name's, my, my name's short for Zachariah. Mm, Zachariah. 0:12 What's your middle name again? Christian? Christian. It's Daniel Christian Burke, yeah. Really? Yeah, it is. I was right. I just- You must have known that. You- No... you were just pulling that- No... 0:22 we must have had this conversation... pulled it out of my, out of my bum bum. Yeah. No. Out of your boom boom? Dude, okay. That's hilarious. Sweet. Yeah. 0:28 Quick story I wanna tell about the time that AI actually saved my skin this week. Really? You may have seen me post about this on LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. I use, I use Claude to do account research. 0:41 I have, like, a bunch of different emails written, and I want them highly personalized, so I'll share the email with Claude, I'll give Claude the account I'm going after. 0:48 I'll say, "Help me personalize this, help me find blind spots, help me," you know, you think through just the approach here. Is this the right approach? 0:55 Anyways, I uploaded this email for a particular account, and it did its thing, it started researching. You know, I've built... 1:02 It has a, bunch of knowledge in the knowledge base, so it sort of knows the way I think, and it said, "Absolutely do not send this email. 1:11 The person you're about to reach out to mentioned on this website," and it showed me the link, "in 2024," so about, I don't know, nine, nine to 12 months ago, "that they're shutting down business operations for this subsidiary of the company due to lack of revenue, lack of growth. 1:25 It would be incredibly tone-deaf to email them what you have written out for me. I repeat, don't send this email. Here are some suggestions of how you should approach this differently." 1:36 And I was literally caught in my tracks because to date, AI's never done that. AI's never caught my strategy and told me on its own, "Bad idea. Don't do it." In all caps, it said, "Don't send this." 1:53 I literally was like, "What?" Like, I wasn't even paying attention. It was just doing its thing and thinking, and I was gonna come back to it. Yeah. And I see all... I was like, "Whoa." So what an incredible use case 2:05 for how AI can actually help us change the way we're thinking, change the way we're, uh, approaching account research, change the way we're doing outreach. Um, so I, I felt like I had to share that story. That's insane. 2:19 I will say that I feel like Claude is the only one that's really good at reasoning outside of only- It is... positive reasoning. 2:27 Like, ChatGPT just d- oh my gosh, I think you commented on a post, and it popped up on my LinkedIn, where it's like, "Don't use em dashes," but it will still continue to use em dashes afterward. Like, it's dumb. 2:39 And so I think Claude's the only one that, like, actually takes in the information and understands what you want and what you need, and how to do something, which... Have you heard of Tango? 2:50 Yes, and that was what I was gonna get to, is the fact that if you're in sales and you aren't using AI to help account research, help outreach, help prospecting, you have to use a tool. 3:02 And Tango is this startup that is partnering with Two Dads in Tech, so huge shout-out to Tango. Go to tango.ai to check it out. 3:09 But they're a go-to-market technology that helps you really use AI the ways that are going to optimize your workflow but not replace the things that make you a great seller, 3:21 and I think a lot of AI tools are struggling to do that. They're replacing the parts of, of sales that make sellers human instead of optimizing the parts of sales that is, is the grunt work. 3:34 I mean, I hate to say it, but it's like there's things that people who are good at sales do not like to do. Yeah. 3:40 And so someone has to do them, and you can't delegate it to another person 'cause no one wants to, no one's good at it, no one knows how, so you have these AI assistants like Tango. Uh, so check it out, tango.ai. 3:49 Huge shout-out to them. They've been partners with us for the last six months. Huge thank you to partnering with Two Dads in Tech. If you haven't used it yet, now's your time, tango.ai. 3:59 Check 'em out, give us your feedback, give us your thoughts. But with that, I have 10 headlines of breaking news that I wanna talk about one by one and just hear your thoughts. Some of them might not have many thoughts. 4:12 Some of them might be a bit more of a conversation. 4:15 But number one is Microsoft just introduced Mico, Mico, I don't know how you pronounce it, M-I-C-O, a new animated avatar for its Copilot AI which sparks concerns about parasocial relationships with LLMs. 4:32 And this is like- Hmm... Clippy, Clippy 2.0, which coincidentally, Clippy apparently is making a comeback. Ooh. Uh, that's not what this is about. Yeah, yeah. 4:40 Yes, they're gonna start integrating Clippy into things eventually. But what are your thoughts on parasocial relationships with LLMs and how we are going to start or maybe have already started 4:54 personifying these chatbots as actual living relationships? I mean, look, even the story I just told, like, that was a very Black Mirror moment where they were- Mm-hmm... 5:08 thinking on their own and telling me what not to do. But how do you- Yeah... find parasocial relationships with LLMs affecting, you know- And you say-... sellers, but also just people, people who use AI- Yeah... 5:19 and are relying heavily on chatbots? Where do you see this going? 5:23 Yeah, so I know we've talked about some similar things in, in previous episodes where, I mean, we've seen people go to the lengths of having a, a relationship with an LLM and then- Yeah... 5:34 you know, doing some bad things. I think that the one that we talked about specifically was, like, he ended up killing himself, and I don't want t- this to turn dark, but, but let's talk about that. And so there's that. 5:44 Um, we, we've talked about that. I won't get too far into that. Then there's, like, I immediately think of the movie Her, which when ChatGPT came out, a lot of people had some sort of- Yes... 5:53 you know, relation, like, "Oh, is Her gonna be real?" And, like, we also talked about this where some people out there, like, marry their car. 6:00 Like, you don't think someone's gonna marry something that actually is- Marry inanimate objects. Yeah, yeah. Uh, animals. I mean, there's, like, there's, like, some weird funky fetishes going on, so you're right, yep. 6:09 Yeah. Now, what do I think about it? [laughs] Well, to be, to be quite blunt, I don't think much about it. I never really think about it until just now. So- Yeah... I don't, the, the way I see it is 6:24 my parasocial relationship with an LLM is definitely like an assistant, like an executive assistant almost, right? That, that knows more- Yeah... than just a singular executive assistant. 6:35 I think that they are forcing us to become addicted to LLMs. Yep. From an emotional standpoint, from an ease of access standpoint, from, like, this addictive feeling. 6:48 I know that ChatGPT, I think it was like four- 4.5 or something, I can't remember the exact number, where it just hyped you up. Everything you said, it was like, "That is-" Yeah... "such an amazing question, Troy. 6:57 You are an amazing person-" Yeah... "for asking me that." I'm like, "Bro, stop." [laughs] Like, all I asked was, "What's a recipe for chicken Alfredo?" Like, [laughs] I'm not that amazing, dude. So I don't know. 7:06 I don't, I, I think that there's, like, psychology behind why they're building it the way they are, and they're forcing people to build relationships with them so they can't get away from it. 7:14 And so that doesn't really directly answer your question of what I think about it and, like, maybe how do I feel about it, but I do think that there is some science behind how they are building these LLMs to make us feel more addicted and connected to them than, like, your standard Google. 7:28 Like, I never felt a connection to Google. I do feel a connection to- Yeah... ChatGPT almost, right? Yep. 7:35 What do you think about having a relationship with LLMs, and not a, [laughs] not a romantic one, unless you wanna talk about that too. Right. No, no, no. I don't. 7:43 Uh, I think we, we, we talked briefly about Gary Vee's opinion on this and how our kids will be marrying- Mm. Mm-hmm... AI or, or robots, and whether or not it- it's widespread. 7:54 I think that will be a thing, and it will be in the not-too-distant future. Same as you, I don't really have many thoughts on this. That alone scares me a little bit. 8:02 I think the less I have thoughts about things that are affecting my real-world reality, the more out of touch I become. One of my friends this week, it, it was such a boomer moment for me. I was like, "Oh, no. 8:15 Like, I'm a boomer now." They said, "Are you Group 7?" And I was like, "I know there's something that I'm not getting here." This was a, this was like a day after it went viral. 8:26 And they're like, "Oh, it's a, it's a viral meme on TikTok right now." So I know what Group 7 is now. It's a TikTok thing. 8:32 It means nothing, but someone randomly started asking if you're in a specific group, and it, depending on what you see in your feed, you're that group. And so that's the whole thing. That's literally the entire thing. 8:42 Yeah, that's it. But now that Group 7 is, like, viral, a viral sensation, like, there's... Like, I saw a TikTok video of, like, a professional soccer, you know, player. 8:52 He's talking about Group 7, and it says, "When you find out you're in Group 7," and he, like, shakes up this champagne and pops it, and all of his posse's behind him. 8:58 And I mean, it's like a whole thing, but where was I even going with that? Oh, the fact that I felt so out of touch in that moment, knowing there was a viral culture reference that I didn't understand- Yeah... 9:13 I'm like, "Man, this must be, this must be how actual boomers feel." [laughs] Like, like, I'm- Yeah... 32. I'm a boomer to 20-year-olds, but, like, I'm not an actual boomer. 9:23 I'm, like, very tuned into internet culture for the most part. Yeah. Honestly, more, more than most people even much younger than me. Yes, you are. But, like, I am aware. [laughs] I am, I am painfully aware. 9:34 Like, I'm getting older. I got some gray hairs coming in. I'm losing my hair. I got two kids. Mm. It's only gonna get worse. It's only downhill from here. I've peaked. I've peaked. Yeah. I'm- Yeah... 9:45 everything for the next 40 years of my life is just gonna be downhill. [laughs] No, but that's my only thought on this, is, like, I just wanna know what people think about things, because I'm scared- Yeah... 9:57 of being so out of touch that I don't have an opinion on something. 9:59 Yeah, I was gonna ask you, did you feel good kind of being out of touch, or were you like, "Dang," like, "this is a reality moment where I'm low-key getting kind of old"? For a moment, I felt, I felt sad. 10:11 I was like, "Aw." FOMO. But literally all I did was just go to TikTok, type in Group 7, immediately understand what was happening, and then I was like, "All right," like, "I can, like, check that box. 10:20 I know what was going on." Dude- Um... real quickly, before your next headline- Yeah, yeah... I wanna bring up something. Sure. 'Cause you're saying boomer. Maybe some boomers might be offended by boomers. 10:27 That's such a boomer thing to be offend- I'm sorry if you're offended, but if you're a boomer- Such a boomer thing to be offended by... it's like you're... Yeah, I know. So boomer. No. So, um- You're fine. 10:34 Dad, I love you, Dad, but you were born in the '60s. That does make you a boomer. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's just, it is what it is, all right? I'm a millennial. There's a lot of stuff about us too, so. Plenty. Plenty. 10:44 There has been some comments we've received, [laughs] it cracks me up, on, uh, YouTube lately. Have you seen them about the postpartum clip? [laughs] No. I've seen a lot of the comments. I didn't see that one, though. 10:56 Oh, there's been, like, three. We had a postpartum clip, and look- Did someone get angry? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for anyone that's listening- Oh, yeah... we kinda talked- For sure. 11:04 We, [laughs] we k- People got real upset... Oh, yeah. 11:07 So we, we kinda talked about, like, postpartum depression and how, like, I, I became very, I, I wouldn't say depressed, but maybe, like, in a mentally dark p- uh, place after my first kid. Yeah. 11:15 And so there's a clip that we put out, and we have a team that does all of our clips, so, like, we don't really even look at what's going out before they go out. We just wanna do volume because Alex Hormozi, right? 11:24 And so [laughs] we're, we put out this clip- First of all-... of postpartum depression... I'm a Alex Hormozi, am I right? And you just carry on. Like- Dude, he's like, he's like 100,000- No explanation... 11:31 clips every day. I know, I know, I know. And so I know, I just assumed the listener's gonna know, but anyways, if you don't, you're a boomer. And so- [laughs] Ah. Um- All right, go on. 11:41 [laughs] So these people were like- Biodata... you cannot ever say that you have postpartum depression. That is a medical condition for women only. 11:49 And then somebody else was like, "I can't even believe you would s- like, compare this to postpartum depress-" And I'm like, "Look, I'm sorry. Like, I'm not saying I literally have it. 11:58 I'm saying after we had a kid, I was low-key a little depressed, all right?" Like- Yeah... 12:03 so anyways, if you're listening to that, and you're that person that commented on the clip, and you're here right now, which you shouldn't be with your comment, that's what we meant. 12:10 So, um, [laughs] post- Look, like- Second-... dads are allowed to, like, postpartum-I get that it's a thing medically, but also it's a period of time. 12:19 And like dads are there during that period of time and get depressed during that period of time. That's all we mean. Yeah. 12:25 We're not saying that we have a womb and that we're recovering mentally or physically from giving birth. We're saying during that period of time- Yeah... 12:32 in the period of time that is labeled medically postpartum, after the partum happens, partum's in the past, now you're in postpartum, dads struggle a lot with that period of time. 12:46 And that is not a comparison to what moms are going through. Yeah. Has nothing to do with what moms are going through. I'm just saying- Yep... on an island, dads are dealing with stuff also. That's all. 12:57 Yeah, so take that. All right. Yeah. Take that anonymous YouTube comment. Watch, they're gonna come back to the comments. Well, honestly, at least they listened enough to hear us say that. Yeah. Probably just a short... 13:07 They'll probably, they probably blocked us immediately. We get two comments a week. Like I, I read them all. I know. I read them all. I know. No, we've been getting a lot of comments lately. I thought I read them all. 13:14 We've been getting a lot lately- I thought-... which is sick. Yeah. I thought I read them all, but now- Not, not these two... you know. Have you seen my hot takes on LinkedIn? 13:23 [laughs] It's like hot take, cold weather is actually cold. [laughs] Yeah, yeah. I see. I have a, I have a whole list of them. I've just been generating them and like- Yeah, of course... 13:33 and like trying to ideate and, uh, some of them are so stupid. Hot take, some of you are seething because I prefer peace over chaos. That's not even funny. Hold on. [laughs] Hold on. There you go. Give me a sec. 13:43 Yeah, no, these are all, these are all bad. See, I, I'm just so much better. The, the things that you can generate with AI are just so bad. They are. I'd rather close... 13:52 Like, like hot take, I'd rather close my laptop than work all weekend. Most will disagree. [laughs] It's like- [laughs] Hey, honestly- It's like-... that does sound like something you would, you would post. 14:00 I know, I know. I just posted one. Uh, I posted one a few minutes ago right before this episode. I said- I didn't see it... hot take, I'd rather make more money working from home. [laughs] This is so dumb. 14:09 I'm laughing just reading it. [laughs] I can't do it. 14:14 Hot take, I'd rather make more money working from home in a remote tech position than commute to and from work in traffic five days a week for substantially less money. [laughs] Most will disagree. Oh, it's just- Ugh... 14:31 obvious. Yeah. Someone... What's funny to me is immediately someone said, someone said, "Honestly, no, uh, I think you have it backwards. Don't you mean less money at home and more money but at the office? 14:43 Seems like no one would disagree with how you currently have it." Oh. You're like, "Yeah, that's the point." I love when people discover me from these posts. Oh. Like, this is the first thing you've seen. Oh. 14:52 [laughs] He's like, "I think you have it backwards." Goodness. Which dude, we, we actually toyed with the idea of, of having this Just Listen series through TDIT. 15:00 We had a few comments- Yeah, I have a few more thoughts on that... and like a lot of- I know. Well, I mean, a lot of people hit us up and they're like, "Dude, like I... You showed me a comment." 15:05 It was like, I actually love disconnecting from the go, go, go and listening to Two Dads and Tech, which I'm sorry I didn't get your name. You did send me a screenshot, but I thank you so much for saying that. 15:14 I hope you're listening to this right now. Brett. Um, Brett. That is Brett. And uh- Thank you so much... he's, he's, he's awesome. I know him. Yeah. Z- uh, SC, South Carolina? Yes. Oh, sweet. 15:25 Although I don't wanna give away too much information. Nice. What's his address? Um, I wanna send him a gift. Uh, yeah. What does it, has it- His social, his social, his Social Security number is 111- Oh. 15:34 And then Travis Simit, which it's Simit, S-I-M-I-T, everyone. Like how would you say that last name? It's definitely not Simit, but it is. Um- I don't think he's a real person. 15:42 I think that's just a Mico- If I, if, if I didn't-... from Microsoft... 15:46 yeah [laughs] if I didn't meet up with him for coffee, I would 100% think that he was just like some weird little frat boy just trying to post on LinkedIn. He is. No, he is a weird little frat boy. 15:55 He's like, he's a very genuine guy. Travis, you're a very genuine guy. You know what he thinks, though? I haven't met him in real life yet, but I do know emphatically- I know what you... Yep... he believes- Yep... 16:02 you should have a mustache. Have a mustache, yep. Also, you didn't notice my beard. It's coming in and I'm a little upset that you didn't say anything about it. Honestly, I thought you always had a beard. 16:14 Do you al- do you normally just have a mustache? Well, yeah, I usually have some scruff. This is a bit thick. I'm not, I'm not usually letting this grow out, but- Nice. Yeah, I went for the next week. 16:22 Now I- What's the reason? You wanna see how like thick it gets or what? No. Uh, just got lazy and just wanted to do- Don't say, don't say lazy. No, I just got lazy. I was gonna say- That's exactly what it is... 16:30 because you do your line down here. No, I know. I see what you did. That's why I, I did, I shaved today- Let's just do half of it. Yeah... and chose, and chose not to shave off the beard. 16:37 [laughs] Usually it's pretty, it's pretty, uh, light scruff, but right now it's- No, I like the beard, dude. We kinda look more alike. 16:42 See, you know, I don't believe you now because I feel like you're only complimenting me because I asked you to compliment me, so- It's cool, man... moment's lost. We didn't ask you to compliment you. Moment gone. 16:48 You just asked me to comment something, and so- Moment, moment... I could be like, "Dude, that looks bad." Moment, moment. Um- It's mo- moment's gone. Yeah. 16:54 So anyways, Travis also reached out and was like, "Hey, that was the best episode. I love the idea of Just Listen." 16:59 Um, I haven't thought too much about it besides the fact that I still, I feel like I'm still trying to do more right now to help people. 17:05 Like, I've been messaging a lot of people on LinkedIn like, "Yo, how can I help you?" I don't- Right... I didn't, I don't know. Maybe I'm like, 17:11 again, I'm going through this weird phase where it's like, maybe I'm not giving enough. Who knows? I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure. 17:17 We should have more conversations about that because I think- What's your next-... you can always do more. I think so, too. What's your next headline? What is my next headline? Yeah, you said you have 10. 17:24 I'm skipping around on some of it. It- Has the backlash to hustle culture gone too far? And I'll, I'll read a little bit more here so you can react to it. Uh, this is from Forbes, 17:36 and it's by Amy, I can't say the last name, Schunthal. Sorry, Amy, for probably pronouncing your last name wrong. There was a time not too long ago when burnout was a status symbol- Mm... 17:47 which you and I can attest to this. Like, "Oh, I'm so busy. I stayed up till 3:45 on Friday working, and I woke up at 6:00 AM to run 40 miles before I worked again." Yeah. It's like, all right. Yeah. 17:59 Success meant staying late, rising early, doing more, and doing it faster, and hustle culture was idolized. So then you think of quiet quitting, lazy girl jobs, like all these trends, trad wife- Sorry, pardon me... 18:14 soft girl era. Lazy girl jobs? Yeah. Are we- I, I don't know. That's, uh, that's a thing... are we calling women lazy?No, this is what this woman said, lazy girl jobs is a- I didn't know what that is... trend. 18:24 Quiet quitting, lazy girl jobs. Yeah, I don't know. Oh, okay. That's a thing. Yeah. Just reading the words. Yeah. Those are not my words. Yep. But anyways, uh, 18:33 I think we've talked a bit about the shift in hustle culture, but how do you think these productivity tools will start to reduce what the expectation is for actual hours worked for output for success? 18:51 And here's what I mean by that. I know. It's a lot. It's a mouthful. I'm gonna concise- concisely reframe it. 18:56 I think in the United States, it is expected you're working at least 40 hours a week if you're, quote, full time, and it is common you're working 50 to 60, just normal. Like, normal job. 19:07 You're not grinding 50, 50 to 60 hours. That's just like, yeah, you, you have a full time job. Good for you. Do you think 10 years from now, the norm for full time will be 20 hours of real productive hours worked? No. 19:22 Why not? I don't because that's not a full time job. 19:24 I think still in a, in a standard working job, people work 40 hours and I th- I think it's gonna be really hard to remove the entire American culture, which I, I think it's done wrong from a work perspective. Okay. 19:38 I think it's gonna be really hard to like shift from 40 hour work weeks to, okay, 20 hours if you have the same output as 40. I think they're just gonna expect the higher output, but within 40. 19:47 And I think it's just because it's so like engraved into American culture to work a nine to five. Um- Yeah... 19:52 then you also have now at the speed of AI, these startups are actually saying that you need to work more than just startup culture, right? Like nine, nine, six is a big thing now. Nine, nine to nine, six days a week. 20:04 Yep. So, um, and then there's people that are like, "What the hell nine?" Like I wake up at 6:00 and I work 6:00 to 9:00 six days a week or even seven days a week. And so it's, it's kind of this weird like battle, right? 20:15 We're evolving so quick from a tech perspective that to keep up as a business you need to work more and stay on top of things because it's changing so fast. Like there's that. 20:25 I actually just saw a post from the CEO of a, a native AI company doing multiple, probably five to 10 million in revenue, and he is saying, "I'm struggling keeping up with AI features in our product because of how fast AI has come out." 20:37 Yep. For example, Atlas, I believe was wro- was announced Monday or Tuesday, uh, which is ChatGPT's browser, and I spoke to a couple people today that use it 'cause I was like, "Do I switch?" I use Arc. Yep. 20:48 And I was like, I love Arc, and I don't, I don't think I could ever go back to a Chrome UI ever again. It has a Chrome UI. Hm. But he- Why?... essentially like, I don't like the tabs on top. 20:59 I like my favorites in the top left, like with their little logos and icons that are always open, but I feel like if I- Yeah... always have tabs open, it just kind of bothers me. That's fair. 21:06 So it doesn't feel like tabs are open. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Um, so anyways, he was like, "I use Atlas. 21:11 And by the way, I went to Salesforce through the browser, and I just went to every, told it to go scrape all the accounts in Salesforce and do account research on it and give me any sort of updates when there's something big that happens." 21:20 Yep. A browser will literally do research for you now and like that just gets rid of so many research tools. You don't need it 'cause the browser does it. Yes. So anyways- And we have- Yeah, go ahead. 21:30 I was just gonna say, we have a tool at, uh, Beehive called Sybil, a great tool, and I personally am a Sybil partner, so full disclosure there, but I do use it, and it is an amazing tool. And 21:43 we have prompts, or at le- the tool allows you to build prompts into its program 21:49 s- you know, seat by seat to give you updates at the end or beginning, whatever, or even per meeting every day or on your own cadence to give you like holes in the conversation, uh, pain points that you didn't mention or address in the conversation, risks, like what about this last meeting provides at risk data points that you should address in a follow-up email or in a deck. 22:11 Like, is there a champion in the room? It even goes so far as providing like not facial recognition, but like, hey, this person looked like they were about to talk, and you didn't give them the opportunity- Yeah... 22:25 to, to say what was on their mind. Like very helpful cues. Or maybe, or maybe they seem disconnected, like they weren't listening. Yeah. Like it doesn't... probably something, yeah. Their camera was off. 22:32 They didn't engage. No reactions. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't address them by name. Like- That's awesome... that type of stuff where I'm like, oh, this is like real time coaching from a tool that I'm using. 22:42 I'm heavy, heavy user of Sybil. Love it. Uh, but yeah, I think, I think to your point, and I mean, there's just, there's more and more out there that's like scraping and providing- Yeah... 22:51 a million data points we just didn't have- Yeah... 10 years ago. All I have to say is I feel like it's, it's to one, too hard to backtrack the American culture of you work for like a nine to five. 23:01 Two, to keep up, you're gonna have to like continue to stay on top of things and always iterate things and s- and stuff like that. And so I don't think that there will be... Uh, I say that with the, 23:12 with the ability to sit here and listen and be like, you know what, maybe there are 20 hour- Yeah... work weeks. Because I just think that from a culture perspective, it's too, we're too cooked, man. We're cooked. 23:21 I think it's just gonna be- Like that work is, work is everything. 23:23 I think it's gonna have to be generations, like if not our kids' generation, their kids' generation, where you undo the expectation that someone's full time role requires 40 hours. Yeah. 23:36 I think the only reason full time equals 40 hours goes all the way back to like industrialization and shop w- labor workers. Yeah, yeah. For sure. 23:49 Because of one, the time required to get things produced, but two, the sunset and sunrise. I mean, like daylight- Yeah... savings time? That's back to farmland and farmers. 24:00 Like you woke up earlier with the daylight so you could farm before the sunset. And so I think there's just a lot we just do because that's just how it's always been done. 24:08 But I'm like, for the first time in history, I feel like there's a, there's a solution, and it's delegating that additional 20 hours or 15 hours or even five hours to AI. Yeah. 24:19 The problem is I think we're just gonna replace, all right, well now you have 35 hours, so that means you have 10 hours you could work that the AI's doing. So you just-Fill it. Yeah. You just fill your bucket. 24:28 I think that's our problem. We fill our bucket too fast. Either that or there's a... So there's a couple things here. The shift I think would happen if you have a generational company that says, "You know what? 24:37 We are now letting all of our employees work 20 hours a week as long as they have, you know, 15 agents that are doing specific things for them," right? 24:44 Like, a gen- Like, OpenAI would have to come and be like, "We're doing 20-hour work weeks now." Yeah. 'Cause AI is doing a lot of the other people's jobs. 24:51 But then there's like, okay, well, why am I paying 10 people to work 40 hours when I could pay five people to work 20 hours or whatever, and then they do the extra 20 with AI? You know what I'm saying? 25:01 So, like- I mean, I think it's very possible. It will always be limited, at least for the foreseeable future, as far as I can even comprehend, it'll always be limited to, like, tech and software. Yeah. It will be. 25:12 But, like, I think there w- there's a real possibility in the future that people will have a high-paid one person with what you mentioned, like a, an army of AI agents instead of hiring 10 people, because people will specialize in building AI solutions. 25:30 You'll still need a person, I believe, to manage all these, at least for now. 25:34 I mean, eventually AI might be able to manage its own AI solutions, but, you know, I think there's a, there's a real, there's a real future here that, you know, we need to uncover. 25:45 So I, I wanted to bring up something as I saw it on the news. Did you see that Amazon is planning... 25:52 They've already cut 27,000 corporate jobs since 2022, and three days ago, I remember I saw it on the news when I got home, and I was like, "Wait, honey, hold on. I gotta listen to this." 26:00 They're planning to cut, like, a massive chunk of their workforce because they're saying robots will do jobs better, and it's not your standard, like, oh, your manager that does this on a computer. 26:09 It is straight-up robotics. Like, robots are- Yeah... becoming so much more advanced that they're gonna cut a lot of these assembly workers and factory workers- Yep... 'cause they don't need it anymore, which is... 26:19 That's, like, one of the areas I thought would, it would happen last to, right? Like, oh, well, we need people there. No. No. No, no, no. I think it... I worked at Bosch 26:28 for, I don't know, for, like, six or seven months as an internship in college, and there was line workers. Like the water? The water company? Bosch. Bosch or B- Bosch? Bosch. Oh, B-O-S-C-H. Yeah, yeah, yeah. B-O... 26:39 Yeah, yeah. It makes, like- Okay... you know, appliances and- Yeah... car parts and stuff. Yep, yep, yep. But they had a massive facility. It was, like, 1,500 employees. Lot of assembly. 26:48 So there was, like, corporate, maybe 40 or 50 people in corporate at this plant, but then 1,000-plus people doing assembly. And I remember walking through assembly lines and seeing it's hard work, but it is repetition. 27:04 And I'm like, if AI's gonna replace something sooner, it's gonna be the thing that is the same exact thing 1,000 times a day. Yeah. 27:14 Because that's exactly what it can do right now, is the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. 27:20 It's when there's a broken thing in the assembly line that you have to identify as broken and throw it out and replace it with one that's not. Like, there's a lot of human touch that goes into an always-on assembly line. 27:34 But I'm like, it's just a matter of time. I mean, it's... A- and with Amazon, these robots are replacing the shipment right now. I mean, a lot of facilities, the- Yeah... 27:41 you know, load it on a car, get it off the shelf, and I've... You've probably seen the videos of these. Like, they're almost like- Yeah... Roombas- Yeah... 27:48 moving the pallets, and they'll, like, run into each other sometimes. Mm-hmm. 27:51 Uh, it's, it's really funny 'cause they have a very specific map, but if for some reason they both get stuck on the same map, they just, like, run into each other and just, like, don't know- Yeah... how to resolve it. 27:59 So, like, surely there's people out there, but, um- Yeah... look, I've talked about Opal a lot, and they're still not a partner of Two Dads and Tech. Opal, if you're listening to this, please become a partner. 28:09 I'm a heavy user. I love it. Every week, I get a report. Like, "Here's how you used your phone this week. Here's what your screen time looked like," yada, yada, yada. 28:17 And I just wanted to mention that since I started using it, it says my screen dime, my screen time is down 55.6% since I started using Opal, and it says when I set it up, I declared nine hours a day. 28:34 That's, like, what it... That's just what my average use time was. Last week- You were using your phone nine hours a day? Yeah. Ooh. And I'm... It, it tracks, like, you pick it up and check it. 28:44 If you do that 500 times, you know, it's two minutes times 500, or at night, a few hours. And n- I, I mean, that's... Honestly, I declared nine hours. That might not have been right. I don't think it pulled my data. 28:53 But right now, three hours and 59 minutes a day, that's pretty good. That's good. I'm g- I'm going the right direction, and it said when I first started, I was on track to spend 44 years using my phone. 29:06 That, that literally makes me wanna vomit. I'm down now to, like, 26 years over life. So directionally going the right way. Still should not be proud of that. That is a lot of phone use. 29:17 Dude, you gotta- But, like, right now I'm recording this with my phone so that, there's, like... That counts as- Yeah... 29:21 phone use, so, like, there's some settings I should probably optimize where it's only counting what I call, quote, "distraction." Mm. So, like, Google Maps, if I'm using it, that's phone use. 29:31 So, like, there's a lot of, like, elements there where you're like, "Oh, okay, that starts to make sense." Spotify. Yeah. You know, but- Yeah... you know, I've deleted some of those as, like, knocking against my time. 29:41 Yeah. Well, what I'll say is one, you said, like, I shouldn't be proud of that. You should be. And I feel like, I feel like we- Well, you're right. Yeah. No, no, no. Like, you cut it by a third just about, right? 29:50 And so, like- Mm-hmm... you should be, and I feel like... I was, I was having conversations with some friends today where it's really hard to sit there and kinda, like, take in those small dubs. 29:58 Like, that's a small dub for you. It's like- That is a small dub... that's reducing it at least. And who knows where that nine hours came from, but, like, that's reducing- Yeah... it six hours a day. You're right. 30:07 So it's huge. So that's... Be proud of it. Is, if it, is it where you wanna be? Maybe not, but still made some progress, man. It's huge. Yeah. No, I, I appreciate that. You're right. 30:15 I think, uh, that is a small dub, and directionally, huge dub. And I'm like, it's only been, I don't know, two, not even two months since I started using this app, and- Yeah... I don't know. 30:24 Sometimes I'm like, "Oh, this app's so annoying. Like, just let me open this stupid app so I can, like, do what I need to do," but it's helpful. 30:29 It's like it's actually training me-To not need it, especially on the weekends. 30:34 I lock it, uh, Saturday and Sunday morning from 7:00 AM to 11:00 AM, and I'm finding on most weekends, I'm just not using my phone for those four hours, um, at all. Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah. Pretty cool. 30:48 You know what I've noticed that's pretty bad about me recently? What's that? It's kinda like, I kinda feel, uh, ashamed to admit it, but my lack of saying sorry, and I'm not- Hmm... saying in, like, very big cases. 31:02 Like, if I'm wrong, I will let you know that I'm wrong. But it's more so, and I had an example this morning, which is why I was like, "Holy cow, why did I not say sorry to him?" Which is my son, Liam. 31:12 I was, we were, like, in a rush. So I had a call at 9:00. I wanted to get to the gym. On Fridays, I work out after daycare. So I have a call in and I'm, like, trying to rush just to get out to get to daycare, whatever. 31:20 I'm like, "Come on, Liam. Come on. Come on." And so he's standing, like, literally an inch behind me, like, right, right on me, and I open the door and I step on his foot. 31:26 And he didn't say anything or, like, he wasn't hurt or anything like that, but I stepped on it. And I was like, "Dude, come on. Like, let's go. We gotta get out." I was like, "Dang, I didn't say sorry. 31:34 Like, I should've just said sorry." Mm-hmm. Like, that's just a, a common practice to instill. So yeah, it's something I found out about myself today, just, like, some self-reflection. 31:41 Um, I think for me it was like- Did you, did you say sorry to him since then, since you had that realization? I, I haven't seen him... Well, I dropped him off at daycare, but no. No, no, no. I could when I pick him up. 31:50 Here's my advice unsolicited. It'll go a long way, even, even for the three-year-old. "Hey, man, when I, when I stepped on your foot earlier, I really, I really felt bad about that. I'm sorry." Give him a big hug. 32:02 He will forgive you because kids forgive. That's their specialty. But that, that is the start. My wife would say this, too. I'm very quick to apologize. The problem is I have to apologize a billion times a day. 32:16 But I think a strength of great father figures and father leaders is being quick to apologize to your kids and to your wife. Yeah. And I think your wife will notice you apologizing to your kid. 32:33 And I think your kid's psyche and the way he views the world and the way he views male models and male relationships and, I mean, that will be shaped by his dad admitting- Yeah, yeah... fault. 32:46 And this is such a tiny thing. I mean, you stepped on his foot. He's fine. You didn't break anything. Like, he didn't cry. It's, it is what it is. But s- but apologizing when it- Yeah... 32:53 doesn't really matter makes apologizing when it does matter that much easier. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I was like, "Dang, I'm an idiot." But anyways, it's, it's- You're good... 33:02 the first, the first step- No, you're not an idiot... is just being aware, you know? [laughs] Look, you're not an idiot. 33:06 There are dads listening to this right now, or men or women or people with or without families who are like, "Yeah, I suck at apologizing." Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love Dad. Hey, much love, man. So true. 33:18 Much love. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think, um, I was talking with my wife this week. 33:23 We've had a very busy week, uh, both during the day, but also in the mornings and in the evenings, so we just haven't seen each other much. Yeah. It's been tough. Uh, and I, we were like, I don't know, we were bickering. 33:36 I hate, I hate using that word. We were bickering a little bit this morning. Yeah, it happens. It happens. Um, over breakfast, and she's like, "What's, what's wrong?" I can't remember what word she said. "What's wrong?" 33:44 I said, I was like, "I'm just, like, sad. I don't know why, but I'm just sad." And then I realized a few hours later, I was like, "I feel like I haven't seen you in days." Yeah. Yeah. A little weird. 33:54 And that just, like, made me sad, and I'm not, like, moping, but, like, kinda. I was like, "Dang, I, like, kinda miss you." Yeah, yeah. Why am I sharing this? 34:05 I think sometimes we try to put on a face that everything's, like, fine and dandy in healthy relationships. But, like, I realized today that it doesn't have to just... 34:17 You don't have to just, like, brush everything as like, "Yeah, we're good. Like, we're happy. We have great kids. Everyone's healthy. I have a good job. You have a good business. Like, you're a great mom. 34:24 I'm a great dad." Like- Yeah... no, like, this week was hard. This week was hard, and I think, I don't know, you're, you're, you're pulling up some vulnerability in me from sharing the apology thing. 34:33 I think sometimes you just gotta say it, man. You just gotta say- Yeah... what's real. 34:37 You know, what's funny is, it's not funny, but my wife told me, I think, on Monday or Tuesday of this week, she said, we used to do, back in Raleigh, we'd go out to lunch at least one day a week, usually on Fridays, and we don't. 34:47 We haven't done that since. And so, and we've lived here for a year now, and she's like, "I think we should go back to doing our lunches." And I was like- Dude, my wife said- Dude, we-... the same thing to me this week. 34:55 [laughs] We, literally- I was like, "We should"... 34:57 we didn't u- we didn't, like, used to do them or anything, but she's like, "We should start doing lunch once or twice, uh, a month, just, like, during the day, like, you know, Everett's at school," and, you know. Yeah. 35:06 Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, she's like, "Lunches or coffee," and I was like, "You know, we, we should," because kinda similar is, like, demo's been pretty busy lately. I've got swimming. 35:14 I do, I do swimming for both the kids, so Monday and Wednesday when I get back, I'm just, like, tired, and that's an excuse. 35:19 But, um- Do you mean you take them s- to swim or, like, you're the swim coach, or what do you mean? No, I'm not the swim coach. Um, I take them to swimming, but I'm in the pool with them. So- Nice. Oh, that's cool... 35:27 I, I swim with them. So yeah, just, like, days get busy, and kinda like what you just said, it's like you don't... And it's less of, like, you don't have time for each other. 35:36 It's just, like, the time you do have, it's not as intentional as you want it to be most of the time. Might just be, "Okay, like, let's clean up the house. Like, you go do the, you know, room. 35:43 Let's sit on the couch for a sec." And next thing you know, you're like, it's not super intentional, right? It's like, "Oh, ha ha, the show." Yeah. But yeah, man, she, she said that, and I was like, "You're right. 35:51 You're right." So we're gonna get back to it starting next week, at least a coffee or a lunch every, uh, once a day every week. That's huge. Yeah. We try to go on a date every single week. It's usually on the weekends. 36:02 That's nice. But, like, that has been massive, uh, for our just relationship, communication. And we've been married, like, eight years. I feel like a lot of early, like, newlyweds are like, "Oh, you gotta keep..." 36:15 But, like, you lose it over time. You do. But we're just like, we, we can't lose it, uh, because, like, what are we? If we're not going on dates, like, what are we? 36:23 We're just co-parenting, which is important, don't get me wrong. But you can co-parent with someone who you are not in love with and who you are not married to. People do it all the time. 36:32 And her- I would argue that that's many relationships... yeah. I'd argue that- Most... probably more than half. Yep. Yeah. 36:38 I think so many peopleGet married, are in love, have kids, and then their entire lives are about their kids and they forget, "Oh, wait a second, I have a wife or a husband or a spouse who I love dearly," 36:51 and that just becomes kind of a, like last priority. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's messed up. So we're just trying to prevent that. I saw a tweet, which are officially called posts now, on X the other day, and it said, 37:05 "I..." Something, I'm paraphrasing 'cause I don't have it pulled up in front of me. 37:08 But as a dad whose startup, you know, founder, can't remember which startup, a few startups, um, he said, "I used to be all about competing on the corporate ladder until I had kids, 37:20 and I find that I just don't really care anymore about the stuff I cared about in my career before I had kids." And it resonated with me because I'm still deep in my career right now, 37:33 like I would even say somewhere close to the peak possibly. I don't know. Don't know how long the peak lasts for, but I'm, I'm, I'm feeling pretty good about my career right now. But like 37:44 titles and recognition and things that I used to like really almost need, like to feel like I'm succeeding, I don't care about as much now as my kids are getting older and like interacting with me, and like- Mm-hmm... 37:58 when I shut my door in my office at the end of the day and see my kids glaring at me and excited to see me, and I, I play tickle monster with them where I just chase them both and, and it's fun. 38:07 They both run away from me now, so one of them is walking officially, and they're just like two little munchkins just running away. Yeah. I'm like, "Dude, nothing else matters." So I wanted to ask, how has... 38:17 You're in a very different position. You, you own a startup. You're- Yeah... building it, but like how is recognition and career and like all the stuff, the corporate ladder changed as you've become a dad? I love this. 38:30 So that's huge, first of all. Like those chases and stuff like that, my- Love it... Liam loves to tackle me. Um, so I texted somebody. I'm trying to pull up the text right now because you reminded me. 38:40 I text- I texted somebody this morning. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave some stuff out here, okay? Yeah, that's fine. But I texted some stuff this morning about this very topic. And 38:53 what I said with some words taken out is, "With the new pivot of Demo, what I'm trying to do is take on a few clients every month, have a few ongoing services so that can be recurring revenue," 39:03 some stuff I can't say, "and then live on a pretty healthy base. I don't care about making a ton of money or anything like that." 39:09 But I said, "I took a step back and had some hard reality moments where I was like, do I really wanna work all day every day, or do I want to be able to work like 20 to 30 hours a week, have a ton of flexibility, and spend time with my family and do stuff that I wanna do versus going after the $50 million, $100 exit?" 39:27 And I chose the latter. That's what I texted him. And like that's, that like directly answers your question is like, 39:33 yeah, you used to wanna just work all day and make as much money as possible, but I'm like, yeah, like I'm comfortable with the amount of money that I make. Yeah. And yeah, so like I would say for me it's 39:42 this work/life balance is becoming more and more important, and I, we've brought him up in a, at a couple episodes, Scott Barker. Go follow him on LinkedIn if you haven't. Like one of the first employees at Outreach. 39:51 Went into venture capital. Sold his house, his car, his furniture. 39:56 Sold everything just to go like kind of find himself, like really just connect with his mind, and he made a really beautiful post today about like just how America has it all wrong, and he like hiked to the base of Mount Everest, and like America has it all wrong and how people out there, like they work 40 hours a week and they work because they wanna have a happy family versus like us- Mm... 40:13 we wanna work to be successful and make all this money and stuff. Like I don't know. His, his post was great, and- Yeah... 40:19 I continue, and I brought it up last episode, but I continue to like shift towards this mindset of I'm doing it wrong. I'm doing it wrong. This isn't, this isn't what it's, what it's supposed to be like. 40:28 And so I'm trying to find that, what that answer is 'cause his reality is he doesn't have kids, so he can make risks like that. Yeah. 40:36 My reality is I do, so it's like what does that look like in a kid and family-filled world? I don't know. 40:41 I feel like the theme I've seen with people that climb the ladder, get more money, get more fame, get more success, like whatever the ladder is, is they sacrifice something to get there, 40:57 and it takes the amount of time it takes to get to the point on the ladder to where they wanna go that they're missing like large seasons of life they would otherwise be able to experience if they weren't doing that. 41:09 I think the fear I have, like how long is the ladder? Like when am I done climbing? When am I like, "Okay, like I'm good. I made it. I'm happy. I don't need to take another step"? 41:23 And I think, you know, I always go back to like the deathbed commonalities. People are, "I wish I'd just spent more time with my family." Yeah. 41:31 And I'm like, well, there's gotta be so many people who like climb the ladder and 41:36 put family to the side or don't start a family because they're, you know, focused on their career and they end up in their 30s and 40s and they're like, "Oh, shoot, like I, I missed 15 years of prime time to start a family, and- Yeah... 41:51 now I can't go back." Like you can't go back. I think the one thing about life is it's one direction. You can't like go back and do it again. You literally- Yeah... only live once. YOLO. Yeah. Yeah. 42:03 [laughs] Like you don't get to go do it again, and so you gotta get it right. You gotta try to get it right. You can't just ignore it. I think that's where midlife crises, crises, midlife crises start. Crises. Crisis. 42:15 Yeah, yeah. Crises. You know, I, I think that's where they start is people have these existential moments of dread where they're like, "Oh, crap." Well, yeah. "I'm 40, and I've, I've been wrong for 20 years." Yeah. 42:30 And so my encouragement to people listening, and to me, I'm talking to myself right now- I know you are. I was gonna make a comment... but also to people listening, yeah, is make sure you're getting it right. 42:40 Like it, like life is really, really short.And you don't really get another chance. You don't get another shot. You don't get to go back and have another childhood with your kids. Yeah. You get one. Yeah. 42:55 And I remember someone saying, "This is the worst thing I'm ever gonna say out loud, is you get 18 summers with your kids." I hate that. Mm. I hate that thought. I hate that sentence. I hate that reality. 43:08 You get 18 summers with your kids. Yeah. That goes by so fast. And- It's crazy... don't waste it. Don't waste those years. They're golden years. Your kids adore you until they don't, and then- Yeah... 43:23 you're left with adult kids, and you gotta just make the most of having great friends and those adult kids. But they, it shifts. You know, they're, you're not their hero anymore. You might be. 43:33 Obviously, there's exceptions to this, but, like, there's a shift. So make sure- Yeah... you make the most of those moments. Do what matters. Yeah, but it's, but it's... 43:41 So when you were saying that you were talking about how, like, you've climbed the ladder, and you do pretty well, right? And so 43:47 you, I think you said something along the lines of, like, when do I stop climbing the ladder? Like, when do I, when do I not take the next step? Mm-hmm. And just knowing you, I feel like you're gonna want that next step. 43:57 And maybe, like- I don't even know what the next step is... who, and you don't need- I don't... Yeah... you don't need to know. You don't need to know, right? I know. I know. I know. Like, so, like, this whole... 44:04 And that's why, that's why I'm, like, struggling so hard with, like, this mindset is, like, I keep taking these steps, but I'm realizing, like, I'm [laughs] I'm caring too much about these steps versus other things. 44:13 And that's where I'm like, how do you actually... Like, where's that balance of I'm working, and I'm able to provide and have a, you know, good life, comfortable life- Yeah, yeah... 44:21 and I'm doing things with my kids that, like, people just dream of. You know? I, I, I don't know. Yeah. I, I can't... So easy to sit here and, and say things like this, but it's- Yeah... so hard to actually take action. 44:33 Be like, you know what? I'm gonna go quit my job today. I'm gonna just consult and make, you know, 100K, 200K, which by the way, everyone, everyone listening, that's a lot of money- Yep... 44:41 a year, and I'm gonna go just hang out with my family. But then again, your kids have school. Now wh- I don't know. I just go do this, down this rabbit hole all the time. 44:50 I think we're- And I don't know if there's a way... yeah. I think people are created to be busy, but I think- Yeah... 44:57 we've redefined what busy looks like, and what busy looks like is, like, losing sleep, sacrificing health, working overtime, working on the weekends, always being connected, never disconnecting. 45:09 But actually busy just means, like, doing work that you're proud of, building something, contributing in some way to society. Busy doesn't have to be, like, an unhealthy thing. 45:21 And so I think, you know, it's a lot to chew on. We should bring this plane in for a landing. Uh- Yep. Should... but yeah. What does the ladder look like? 45:28 Someone, uh, someone who has time on their hands make a AI image of me climbing the corporate ladder and tell me how many rings I have left on the ladder before I have to- [laughs]... before I have to climb back down. 45:39 [laughs] I know. Also, um, yeah, this was... I love this episode. This was a fun one. Um- Yeah, this was. This was a good one. Okay. So where, where can they find us? 45:47 We always say we're gonna say, like, the subscribe- Two Dads and Tech... in the beginning, and we forget. So subscribe- I know... on YouTube and- I did forget. Subscribe on YouTube. Twodadsandtech.com. Go check us out. 45:56 Follow us on Instagram. We do, every single day, we do three Instagram reels. Every single day, we do three YouTube shorts. 46:03 They're, we're getting, like, 250,000 views a month right now across the shorts and the YouTube videos and just all the different content we have. But we wanna 10X that. 46:13 Like, we would love our content to be working for us, and it's just not yet. I mean, it's kinda- Not yet... kinda is. Kinda is. Yeah, I know. But, like, not, not like it could be. 46:20 I don't, like, it hasn't popped off as- Help us grow, guys. Yeah, yeah. Tell your friends. Tell your friends. This is episode 42
